Wednesday, May 17, 2006

Hypocrisy – The Conservative Hydra?


Vox Day writes for a rag called the World Net Daily. I call it a rag, because even the New York Times has higher standards, and so WND cannot reasonably called a news source. Hate, however, they have and to spare.

Mr. Day wrote a hit piece on President Bush, which I will not honor with a link. Nothing new there, a lot of people seem to find it amusing to trash Dubs for doing his job, as bratty children sometimes resent the adult interrupting their sport, even when that sport is malicious and wrong. In what may be his kindred spirit, Mr. Day accused President Bush of lying by claiming that the Nazis provided an effective answer he should consider in terms of removing illegal aliens from the country. Mr. Day actually praised the Nazi system, which stole property from millions of native Jews, forcibly evicted millions more, and out & out tortured and murdered still millions more. In addition of course, we should recall that the Nazis’ Eugenics and Racial Purity programs also took action against such undesirables as Gypsies and Homosexuals, murdering many of them as well. What a swell plan, eh? And Mr. Day not only thought it was a winner, but that Bush should be attacked for not embracing it.

The blog “Called As Seen” bravely took up the gauntlet, and properly took “Vox” to the woodshed for his vulgar suggestion. Harold C. Hutchison, who writes the blog, also took nationally prominent columnist Michelle Malkin to task, since she herself has columns on WND, knows Mr. Day by his work, and has seen fit to trash responsible Republicans for far more reasonable positions. Mr. Hutchison found it strange, as I do, that Ms. Malkin saw no reason to rebuke Mr. Day, even for suggesting that the Nazis’ methods should be defended, much less adopted. I responded to this myself in the comments:

“So Vox is saying that we can solve our illegals problem by getting millions of people to leave the way the Nazis did.

The Nazis, and yes I looked this up, did not “deport” people in the way that the INS does. No air-conditioned buses or airplanes. In fact, the preferred method of deportation, before they decided it would be cool to enslave them, murder a few by gas and kill the rest through slave labor, was to take away their property, beat them bloody, and basically terrorize them into fleeing the country, making sure to take anything they could from the poor wretches.

Millions of people fled the country because they knew it was death to stay. So, Vox is basically saying we don’t actually have to kill millions of people, just convince them that we will murder them if they stay … sorry, I will pass on that plan.

And by the way, the President never said it was “impossible”, he said it was not feasible, not realistic. As in no one has figured out the cost of apprehending and deporting over ten million people and their possessions, to say nothing of the resources which would have to be pulled away from other vital jobs.

It’s a paranoid pipe dream, this idea of treating people like trash to be collected and disposed of.

We all want secure borders, but the Nazi analogy just proves that some people don’t care so much about keeping their souls intact.”

The problem is not the nerve of one malicious writer, who continues to see Nazis under his bed, in his closet, and consequently in his writing. It is the arrogance of high-profile Conservatives, who cannot bring themselves to respect the twice-elected President of the United States, by his work or his office, and who cannot treat with civility those who question the method of yell first, then stamp feet. After all, we have long mocked, with cause and logic, those on the Left whose every answer for a Republican initiative was to scream and moan. The only acceptable standard is to propose rational suggestions, to test them with reason and evidence, and to seek alternatives which also are measured and calm. Emotion certainly has its place, but it cannot be the focus of an issue.

Celebrities like Michelle Malkin, Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Savage are not advancing the discussion or even seeking realistic solutions. Instead, they are trying to drive up their audience by demagoguing a crisis, and trashing reasonable people whose opinion should be considered on its merits. They are using the very same tactics we saw employed on the Left, historically and in recent days. It is an unfortunate fact that such tactics do work to drive up viewers and readers. It is a worse fact that such tactics damage the debate, the party, our ideals, and the nation.


The Listkeeper said...

Amazing how many people are forgetting things like, you know, the Constitution in this. Or are willing to have Bush go WAY beyond the law (Illegal immigration is a civil offense, not a criminal offense. The punishments are fines.)

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Drummond,
I am so sorry about what happened to the Polipundit experience. I cannot believe a Conservative would be so afraid of the competition of ideas, they would turn to Censorship.

I still believe you would do well to regroup with Ms. Byrd, Mr. McClure, Jayson, and Yourself.

Kitty has linked to your reasoned efforts...DJ Drummond was another Polipundit blogger who explains what happened. Scroll down through his blog Stolen Thunder ...

Celebrities like Michelle Malkin, Rush Limbaugh, or Michael Savage are not advancing the discussion...

Even the other day, prior to the President's speech, a caller got on the EIB network and offered a conspiracy theory that the National Guard would be used to enhance illegal immigration. I was surprised to see Mr. L, not work to diminish such insanity, and instead placated the idea (without his normal satire).

If one destroys the trust in this Nation to such a degree, what is the point of defending the borders? If the US is merely a fraud?

It all seems entirely unbalanced, and resembles some of the basless mentality of the left wing extremes.

I feel a number of these fine pundits, have been swayed by the most vocal...

best wishes...

I hope you do not mind, I have added your blog to my list of mighty fine...

Harold C. Hutchison said...

My problem with Malkin is not just her silence.

She has actively accused people of mischaracterizing her - often with shouts of "Racist!", "Nativist!", or "Xenophobe!".

It all but begs the question, particularly when she seems to be willing to cite those that others have concerns about. She is also silent when an out-and-out case like Mr. Day's does appear (at least as of 1:42 PM EDT) - but she had pnelty of time to post a picture of her at a Falls Church 7-11.

CajunKate said...

I'm sorry, you go to far when you include Rush in this list of demagogues. Rush has never been about hatred or trashing other conservatives. Do you think Vice President Cheney would go on his show if this was true! Please be more careful with the people you trash!

USMC Pilot said...

DJ: Hope you don't mind me jioning in, but I can no longer handle Poli's web site. When people start trashing the man they voted for, I DON'T want to read anything they have to say. I have never cared much for making things personal, even when responding to the super-libs that chime in from time to time, but when you start trashing the president of the USA, I stop listening/reading.

The boarder must be secured regardless of what happens next or simultaniously. I just wish some of the people who are so adament about throwing the Mexicans out were responsible for trying to do it.

MFG said...

Tragically, there is a strain of vicious racism on the right, something that I had hoped had been more or less eliminated years ago.

It's a small group of people, but they are getting undue influence, and they are determined to take our party over the cliff.

MFG said...

Speaking of Hispanic people as "trash" and "scum", advocating they be machine gunned to death at the border!

It's like the goddamned Klan

Icarus said...

It has got be just killing you that Lorie Byrd is drawing at least 10 times the comments and traffic that you are ... and that Poli is so busy that the site is crashing.

It's killing you, ain't it?

And it's cracking me up.

Karma, baby!

Enjoy your eighth comment - which is about 7 more than your threads usually get :)

The Listkeeper said...

It's even more of a killer to see how much Poli's business is dropping off.... Definite downward curve happening.....

The Listkeeper said...

Adjoran said...

Celebrities like Michelle Malkin, Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Savage are not advancing the discussion or even seeking realistic solutions. Instead, they are trying to drive up their audience by demagoguing a crisis, and trashing reasonable people whose opinion should be considered on its merits. They are using the very same tactics we saw employed on the Left, historically and in recent days. It is an unfortunate fact that such tactics do work to drive up viewers and readers. It is a worse fact that such tactics damage the debate, the party, our ideals, and the nation.

Exactly! Unfortunately, there are many conservative bloggers who have jumped on this bandwagon as well. None have thoughtful positions, that I have seen. It is base demagoguery, nothing more.

Icarus ~ it only goes to show that when you appeal to the lowest common denominator, you attract lots of low and common people. Don't let us distract you from being with your peeps, dawg!

Anonymous said...


I was over on Lorie's site and you mentioned wanting to blog with Oak Leaf and Ace!?!?

Ah ghee thanks a lot. Oak Leaf was the first to suggest on a thread that Alexander,{who was having his mentor a Mexican American physican answer questions from commenters }and the rest of you were guests of Polipundit's and that you all best be mindful of that,or words to that effect. This was after a commenter left a anti-Hispanic slur right in the middle of the thread and Alex and and another commenter were fending that off. Of course Oak Leaf in full arrogance pose sided with the racist comment.

Then Oak Leaf signed onto Polipundit's post entitled TREASON-the President is a traitor..

Oak Leaf signed onto that in full agreement and attached his proported signature-

xxxxxx xxxxxxxx
Lt. Colonel Army Reserves

or some such "brave" crapola.

I'm surrounded by military guys-to a man none of them would be so unprofessional to do that-can't you see that?

As for Ace you've alienated most of the audience that he has hurled his preschool name calling at. It sucked the wind out of the threads he couldn't go for two posts without hurling insults and he never used them at me but it was not something that a lot of us enjoyed. You can't see that!?!?!

Do me a favor before you have Oak Leaf as a fellow blogger check his damn references. But if he hasn't done enough to disprove himself to you at Polipundit then it's hopeless.

DJ Drummond said...

2 thoughts;

First off, thank you Icarus. You know you've done OK, when people who hate you feel compelled to come by anyway!

Next, despite present tensions, I have known Ace and Oak Leaf for a long time, and their character is good. Also, each has a writing style which, at the least, would prime the pump for discussion. Certainly, it would be at least worth talking to them!

And finally, you may have noticed that Polipundit is still on my linklist (although I need to add some names!). While I am disappointed in recent events and a couple exchanges, on the balance he is still a man who does what he promises, and who gave a chance to some no-name writers a couple years back. Yes, we helped build the site's readership, but he formed the team, and I still hope that when he comes back to his senses, Poli will bring his site back up to the high standards he used to consistently embrace.

Cynical Observer said...

DJ, this madness we are seeing from the far-right appears very much to me to be something I'll call "Mexiphobia." It's radical and smacks of racism.

I've observed over time that there is a segment of so-called Conservatives who seem to think that they "own" the Republican Party, and that the Republican Party absolutely must dance to their tune. Since the Harriet Miers brohaha, they seem to have been emboldened and encouraged to get their way with bully tactics, unreasonable rhetoric, and dishonest spinning of the facts.

I don't know what to call such people, but we definitely need to distinguish them from the larger group which I'll call the "Conservative-minded" people, for lack of a better term.

All reasonable Conservatives need to be reminded from time to time: we don't own the Republican Party (heck, I'm not even sure that we're a majority). If we were to form our own party, we'd be a permanent minority (in our lifetimes, anyway). The only way for Conservatives to really make a difference is if we are reasonable people and, in the short term, are willing to compromise on issues enroute to, hopefully, turning the political corner in the long term.

The difference, to me, between the hard-line Conservatives and the Conservative-thinking ones is that one treats Conservatism as a religion, while the other recognizes that we're engaged in the endless game of politics, where compromise is a necessity.

m&m said...

Vox Day writes for a rag called the World Net Daily. I call it a rag, because even the New York Times has higher standards, and so WND cannot reasonably called a news source. Hate, however, they have and to spare.

DJ--What do you know that I do not? I've read WND for quite some time and cannot believe that the NYTimes has higher standards than WorldNetDaily. Joseph Farah does have his opinions, as do we all, but he presents a strong witness for the Christian faith in a lot of his editorials. Sure, there are many "columnists" on the site with varied viewpoints (as Polipundit once was), but I really can't see your comparison to the NYT. Or is Joseph Farah more or less "fundamental in faith" than you? I really would like to know if I have been deceived.
Yours in Him, m&m

The Listkeeper said...

There's a major reason that Lorie will always have more traffic that DJ... She's a whole lot cuter.

USMC Pilot said...

DJ: If you must invite other writers, I recommend that you not consider "ACE" as a strong candidate. His retoric is hateful and not tolerant of other opinions. "OAKLEAF" is a little too impressed with his silver leafs, but he writes well and is knowledgeable on many subjects.

Anonymous said...

D.J., because you don't go extreme in the name-calling game, do you think that makes you measured and balanced in your treatment of others?

Your careless groupings of "celebrities" to be criticized and dismissed for demagoguery belies your pretense of superiority. None of them is above criticism, but your criticisms overstate the case often and are aimed at inappropriate targets at least sometimes.

Your charges and tone, in my opinion, do as much to destroy comity among Republicans and conservatives as those you criticize (excepting, perhaps, Savage--but then I don't think principled conservatives pay much attention to him anyway).

I personally feel that Poli went over the edge on the immigration issue, truly becoming irrational in his bitterness. While you, on the other hand, maintain self-control, I don't think you're ultimately being any more fair in characterizing some of those you disagree with or whose "celebrity" you resent than Poli was to the President.

I wish Poli and you would both choose to promote your views forcefully but without specializing in promoting hatred and strife. It's counter-productive to your own goals (assuming your goals aren't consciuously destructive) and counter-productive to your credibility on this and other issues.

I've felt it necessary to take Poli off my bookmarks list; now after a single visit, I see no reason to add this blog to the bookmarks either.
Both losses sadden me

(Levans -- no blogger acct, but not trying to be anonymous)

JannyMae said...

Well, I'm afraid that, although I wouldn't call WND a, "rag," I don't count on it as a news source, either. It's more of an OP-ED site. After seeing them publish several stories, unconfirmed, which turned out to be utterly false, I quit bothering with it a year or so ago for news.

These comparisons by this man are indeed appalling, but I don't think I agree that the celebrities mentioned are not serious about real debate on the issue.

owl said...

You noticed the Silence being practiced by our own MSM? Yep.

I use to check out WND but it was so disgusting to have to sort through the news from the absolute outrageous LaLaLand....I just gave up. I only started to read one article by Vox. One time too many. I consider a site like that to be what some like to point to when they call us 'rightwing religious nuts'. Problem is....most religious people want nothing to do with such tripe.

I can remember when I thought Malkin was such a hot shot because I recognize talent. Such talent!! Such a shame and such a waste. I can not tolerate even watching her on TV any longer. Maybe a good long vacation. She comes over as everything bad that the Republican Party was labeled. That element has brought the Party down before and the disrepect that shows up on her site EVERYDAY for the President is pitiful.

Go back and read Malkin and you will see that it has been going on for years. She wrote a book. She was not able to make it happen. The woman is talented. But she is also vindictive. At the end of almost every post on every subject, she put in a slur. She was responsible for the Crony Brownie attack. She did not just start practicing the MSM art. It is there and surely as BDS as any you can find at DUers.

I am not the only person that picked up on this trait and practice. Read The Anchoress today. She does not name names but it traces straight over.

I am tired of the trashing of the President that has done the most for his base. I refuse to play the keep my mouth shut about what they have been doing. I might have to vote WITH them but they will not get another free ride from me.

Republicanpundit said...

Ace, just posted on my blog what I think about the so-called "Great Republican Breakup" and what happened to you and Lorie.

I hope you will read and agree.

Hello to all my old friend from PP.
REPUBLICANPUNDIT: Democrats: don't start partying until the game is over

Anti-Herman said...

Hey DJ

Good to see you back in action. Congrats on the new site.

FedUp said...


Please reconsider inviting Oak Leaf to guest blog. Some of his comments on Poli have been very nasty. I have been following the comments threads at Poli's and Oak is kissing up to Poli something awful. When a regular poster says that is the last time he/she is reading Poli, Oak makes sure to say, "Don't let the door hit you on your way out" or similar comments.

I remember Oak from last year, before the Miers nomination, and he was one of us......willing to listen to other points of view without getting personal. I almost think that this current Oak is an entirely different person.

Your blog will not be helped by having Oak Leaf here. In fact, it will become just as contentious as Poli's.

Republicanpundit said...



Justrand said...

HEY to my old friends from, uh, "you-know-who's" site. [hint: begins with a "Poli"]

like HILLARYNEEDSAVACATION, I hope the "Gang of Four" re-group somewhere. The power of your opinions, with easy access for us opinioned folks was awesome!!

See ya'll and elsewhere.



Anonymous said...

CYnical Observer:

I have a name for that brand of conservatives -

"Scorched-Earth Conservatives"

"Slash and burn conservatives"?

Republicanpundit said...

I strongly disagree with the posters who don't like OAK.

He is a good man and thoughtful, on most occasions, except when excoriating posters like Mary Q ( Who is fair game for anyone).

He strongly believes in his positions.

Evan3457 said...

Hi, guys.

Of course, the rhetoric is absurd and vicious. To liken the illegal immigrants to the Jews caught in the net of Hitler's 'Final Solution' is vomitous.

I still disagree with you on the President's position, DJ. Close the border first. Then debate what to do about amnesty at any level and the guest worker program.

Steve Falcon said...

Hi, DJ -

I, like you, am disgusted by any references to Nazism while dealing with the illegal immigration issue. Vox Day deserves to be chastised for his sick article. But, not all "Enforce First" conseravtives are demdemagogues.

Like cajunkate and others have mentioned, I also think it's wrong for us conservative Republicans to to start beating up on each other over this issue.

Poli has gone a bit over the edge, but I respect his passion. As someone from who's lived in THREE border states (CA, AZ, and now TX) I've seen first-hand the unique problems illegals cause for communities. Because of that, I understand the emotion of those who have a "throw them out" mentality. It isn't anti-Mexican. It's anti-ILLEGAL, no matter the race. If Canadians were coming here illegally by the MILLIONS and overwhelming our social services, hospitals, and school systems you'd here the same outcry.

So, please, let's STOP focusing our anger at each other and work together. Somewhere between THROW THE BUMS OUT and WHATEVER PRES. BUSH WANTS IS FINE is a workable solution.

Steve Falcon said...


If you don't mind, I've added Stolen Thunder to my blog and I'd like to reference it in the next posting I do.

Is this okay with you?

Rich said...

I've got to agree with other commenters that Oak Leaf is not a good choice for a group blogger. Note this recent comment of his on Poli:

“Funny how the beltway boys are supposedly insiders and RARELY have a clue what’s actually going on, and they never have a ‘feel’ for the base.”

They do however ask their maid Roseta and the gardner Juan.

Tony Snow had some major remodeling done so he was able to talk to Juan, Pedro and Valdez.

How's this different than what you rightly have critiqued? Why did people that seemed otherwise sound suddenly became unhinged? It is because the right only valued correct opinions rather than righteous conduct.

Two important character qualities, charity and humility, are noticably missing from the punditocracy. They were not valued -- in fact they were ridiculed by people like Rush, e.g. any call with someone who claimed to be a moderate. Without these character qualities the right is no better than the left.

rightwingprof said...

I hardly see how Rush fits into the pattern. Rush has been perhaps the most reasonable voice on radio about this issue. Savage, OTOH, is and always has been a media whore, and will say anything that gets him ratings.